Comments on Low Tech Combat: Alpha Male v Predatory Threat

Hi Anon. I did link to the second IHS link at the ...

2010-02-13T11:10:29.682+11:00

Hi Anon. I did link to the second IHS link at the bottom of the above post. I also wrote a post about that article here at The Two Faces

Indeed, that article along with other Hoplology articles have been very influential to me and my overall perspective and viewpoint of Low Tech Combat.

I am interested in learning more about domestic violence and when I do take action when the time is right, I will look up that book. Thanks for the heads up there.

IHS wrote about this years ago: http://www.hoplo...

2010-02-13T06:45:26.619+11:00

IHS wrote about this years ago:

http://www.hoplology.com/articles_detail.asp?offset=-1

http://www.hoplology.com/articles_detail.asp?id=14

I think the idea goes back to Konrad Lorenz, if not further.

Study domestic violence and you'll find that the dichotomy exists even within domestic violence: Gottman and Jacobsen's EXCELLENT book "When Men Batter Women" describes two subtypes of batterers who display distinct patterns of physiology when aggressing toward their partners: pitbulls and cobras. These correspond to a high degree to the alpha male/pseudopredator distinction.

BTW, anyone who teaches self-defence should read that book.

Todd, I found your comment very interesting. Your ...

2009-09-21T11:25:24.338+10:00

Todd, I found your comment very interesting. Your view of 'social violence' is very valid. It can certainly be viewed that all social violence is similar in its build up and execution. I think we are of the same mind here. I just prefer the term 'Alpha Male' as it paints and picture quickly in ones mind as to the meaning.

I am still forming my opinion as to where gang and group attacks fits into the Alpha and Predatory model. For the moment, I am of the opinion that whilst gang members are by themselves or with small numbers, they are essentially Predatory. Yet when they are in a group with significant numbers, they gain strength. They then take on many characteristics of the Alpha Male. However at the same time they can hunt and be Predatory.

Regardless, thanks for the valuable comments Todd.

This is a very good concept, and one I've found ex...

2009-09-20T23:09:10.991+10:00

This is a very good concept, and one I've found extremely useful myself as well.

I follow a similar distinction in my thinking, but with a slight variation. I distinguish social violence in general (intra-species basis in social emotions) from predatory violence (coming from inter-species behavior).

My reasoning is that essentially, when our species preys on itself, it is leveraging mechanisms evolved for predator/prey interactions with other species. Bur our species evolved with powerful selective pressure for social interaction, both cooperative within groups and aggressive between groups.

The reason for the difference is that the two types of interaction use different neurobiological mecchanisms, and so the implicit underlying rules that we follow tend to be different.

Predatory violence is what happens when we "dehumanize" someone and treat them purely as a target. All but a very small percentage of us start out with a powerful inhibition against killing another person outright or using them as piece of meat (see Grossman's "On Killing" for the argument). Various kinds of training or indoctrination or social-political forces can conspire to overcome that inhibition.

Most human interaction is not predatory, it is rather social, and both domestic and "alpha male" patterns fit into that category for me. Just because there is an abuse of power and sometimes becomes lethal doesn't make it predatory for me, you have to look more closely at the process leading up to the danger points.

When we train people to kill, we are essentially teaching them to dehumanize their opponent and invoke predator-prey thinking. Some forms of military combatives and "reality" training are based on this principle. According to some, this is presumably neccessary because the other guy is trying to kill us, so we have to fight on his rules. I think a more flexible and human strategy (although more difficult) is to be able to distinguish the types of interaction and train for each accordingly.

It's a matter of making the basic distinction (predator/prey vs. social interaction); and assuming that either we should prepare for the most lethal but least likely type (predator/prey) or the more likely type (social); and then whether taking a predator stance is really the best choice in each case.

The most important heuristic for me is that social violence can generally be deescalated or defused, and predatory violence generally cannot, it can only be avoided, defended, or constrained by force.

The distinction is very similar to arguing with a rational vs. irrational person. In the former case, you present evidence and make arguments and reasonably expect to listen to each other and come to some consensus. In the latter, you set boundaries and establish alternative strategies and focus on the small things where you can be effective, you don't bother trying to argue. However, if you guess wrong in either case, you are going to be less effective.

Domestic abuse, as you say, should never be tolera...

2009-07-03T16:59:20.769+10:00

Domestic abuse, as you say, should never be tolerated.

I would actually say Domestic Abuse is a warped form of 'Alpha Male' behaviour as it is bullying. Generally there is posturing and threats made in a lead up to the abuse turning physical. This type of behaviour is 'Alpha Male' behaviour.

An in depth analysis of Domestic Abuse is beyond the scope of this comment, though you bring out some interesting points about it and I thank you for it.

This analysis leaves out a significant category of...

2009-03-10T00:39:00.000+11:00

This analysis leaves out a significant category of violence, domestic abuse. Arguably, it fits into the "predatory" category, but the strategy for dealing with abusers is different than predators. The most important strategy is of course to never again trust someone who is abusive and to separate from them so that they must become a predator to continue any kind of relationship. For women and children, the most likely attacker in their lives will be an adult male that they depend on in someway. Self defense for women and those responsible for the protection of children starts with self reliance so that it is always possible to isolate oneself from abusers.